María Eugenia Vidal: "You have to turn the anger into a vote against the government"

- María Eugenia, this cycle of interviews begins by sealing a pact of brutal sincerity between the journalist and the interviewee. Surely I will ask you things that you will not like. Am I counting on your 100% sincerity?

-Go ahead. Perfect.

-If you could choose the first question of this interview, what would you say?

-I would like you to ask me why we have to vote on September 12.

-Okay. Why do we have to go vote on September 12?

-Because on September 12 you define your opportunity to give a first message to the government. It is the right to express in your voice if things are going the way you want or not. I encourage everyone to vote. Knowing that they are going to do it safely because Fernán Quirós, like him, took care that we have safe schools for our children, he took care that on Sunday, September 12, we go to vote safely. There is something very strong that is a message to Kirchnerism to stop this path towards a less educated, poorer, more subdued country, with less freedom.

It is clear what is the first message that María Eugenia Vidal wants to give at the beginning of this talk that is done by telephone when it is already night in the middle of a hectic week for the campaign. She chooses to begin by asking people to vote, aware of the popular apathy that absolutely all public opinion polls show in relation to the political class and the elections. Starting reference to Fernán Quirós , Minister of Health of the City and one of the leaders with the best image in the entire country. He focuses on the issue of schools, whose opening in the Federal Capital divided waters between Larreta and Alberto Fernández. And he establishes a clear cleavage with Kirchnerism, something that Larretismo began to do in recent weeks to prevent the hard vote from going with López Murphy or Milei.

María Eugenia Vidal understands this game perfectly. She is not new to this. She has a degree in Political Science from the Universidad Católica Argentina and has been in politics since the 1990s when she joined Grupo Sophia, a think tank created by Horacio Rodríguez Larreta, to whom she has referred ever since.

-I understand that you choose to start this interview by making a call to vote because you are aware that people are apathetic. Correct? The elections of Salta and Corrientes showed high percentages of absenteeism. That's a message.

-In the street, I see a lot of despair. Argentina is in mourning, Gonzalo. It was a very hard year and a half. Many lives were lost. Many could not say goodbye to their loved ones. More than 100,000 businesses and SMEs were closed. Jobs were lost. Our children were locked up unable to go to school. There were losses that cannot be recovered. That causes there to be sadness, despair and anger . What I tell people is to turn that anger into a vote against the government. Tell him enough. Enough of lies. Enough story. Stop telling us what to do while they do something else. That "enough" is an opportunity on September 12.

-Let's pretend we were in the corridors of the faculty when you were studying Political Science. I cross you and ask you: María Eugenia, based on all this you say, do you think the campaign is good or is it somewhat banal, very tiktokera?

I think there are different ways of communicating. When I finished my degree, there was no Tik Tok, no Instagram, no Twitter. And politicians have to be in all communication channels for our proposals to arrive. Especially to listen. The best thing that happens to me on Tik Tok is not what I post, it's what happens to me afterwards. The messages that reach me, how I answer them, the way to connect with an audience that today does not watch traditional media. It is good that they know what to vote for, when to vote, why it is important that they vote, what we want to represent. Then you can say if you like it or you don't like how I say it, but I think it's important to be there.

-I confess that I was very surprised by the Tik Tok they did with Fernán Quirós about vaccines. Same thing, your social media posting with Crescenti and her vest from the day of the Eleven tragedy. If you could turn back time, would you do those posts again?

-Look, what happened to Fernán (Quirós)... If it helped at least one person who saw that Tik Tok to know how vaccines are combined and that they are safe, it works just for that. And what about Beto (Crescenti) I take as a sign of enormous affection that he gave me that vest. People don't know my history with him. I worked on the street with Beto when I was a minister in very difficult situations. In the collapse of the Miter building, in fires, in situations of evictions, in the Indoamericano. We have known each other for many years. It was not a political campaign gift. It was a recognition of a joint work . I understand that politics is very discredited and that nobody believes politicians anymore. But behind that gift there were many years of relationship and history.

-I have the feeling that there is a kind of "everything goes" that has intensified in recent weeks. Do you like this campaign climate?

I don't believe in that way of doing politics. You will never listen to me disqualifying, attacking, making me violent. I do not believe in that. I never did that. Neither in campaign nor out of campaign. I can be very tough, stand up in fights that I believe in but I don't believe in disqualification, in not listening to the other.

-Don't you think that on your list you have some people who act somewhat aggressively? I think of Iglesias or Ajmechet.

-I believe that each one gives the fights as they feel best, as they best express them. I don't think that Sabrina or Fernando are aggressive people. You may or may not like some of the expressions they have had. But I don't think they are violent or aggressive people.

-The feeling it gives is that they don't have your predisposition to understand each other. You have a good relationship with Sergio Massa, you have exchanged messages with Máximo Kirchner...

-Let's clarify that it is not that I sit down to have coffee with Sergio or with Máximo. I had exchanges with Sergio when I was governor because he needed the accompaniment of his deputies and senators because I was in a legislative minority. He needed it to approve the budget or other key projects such as the limit on indefinite reelection or gender parity. I chatted with Máximo a couple of times, always by law . I still think that it has tried to install a false dilemma between dialogue and firmness. I think you can sit down and talk to someone and at the same time stand firm with the fights you have to give. When I was governor, I got out of a truck when a lifeguard union was throwing stones at me and I stood facing them. And I didn't stop to think if I was taking risks. And when the Indoamericano was taken over in 2010 and I was a minister, I got into the Indoamericano. I went and faced them. That is firmness. The rest, making an incendiary speech on television, getting violent, disqualifying... That's not being firm.

-When you listen to Patricia Bullrich's statements about you, does it bother you?

-Do not. Patricia seems to me to be a brave person who always fights for the things she believes in. Then we can agree or not in some cases. On the most important, we agree.

-Am I wrong if I say that you are on your way to being the next candidate for Head of Government of the City?

- I do not buy any future position. Today I am very clear about the fight I have to give. And the fight I have to fight is so that there is no majority of Kirchnerism in the Chamber of Deputies. In 2023, I will be where I have to be so that we can beat the Kirchnerism that this model of country with which I do not agree proposes to us. This past year and a half they abused their power and became a privileged caste. Argentina cannot tolerate that. I'm not speculating what I'm going to do in 2023.

-But you know that there you have a theme with Martín Lousteau. I mean, after facing Larreta, he joined his project in exchange for something. And that "something" has to do with his aspirations in 2023 in the City of Buenos Aires.

For me that is speculation. Martin can be a candidate for president, a candidate for head of government. I think he is a great leader . He can do whatever he wants to do.

-Going back to the subject of your fight against the values ​​of Kirchnerism, if I play devil's advocate I can tell you that you. They had the cause of illegal wiretapping, the judicial table that was even denounced by Elisa Carrió, the Panama Papers... Do you make mea culpa for the political space?

-I became a plaintiff in the espionage case because I want to know what happened and who is responsible, but I never questioned the honesty of Mauricio (Macri) in any of the issues you are talking about . I have known him for over 15 years. I could never question his honesty. If not, I could not continue doing politics with him.

-And if I ask you about the Macri government? I mean, if one looks at the objective indicators of the macroeconomy, neither the Cristina government nor the Macri government were good.

-There is a fact of reality: of the last 30 years Together for Change only governed 4. If we are going to see responsibilities, let's see how long each one governed and what measures were taken.

-Let's make a kind of republican effort to find virtues in our adversaries and defects in our friends. What do you recognize Cristina Kirchner?

-I recognize him for having promoted the Universal Child Allowance , which was a project of Lilita Carrió.

-What virtue do you find in Alberto Fernández?

- Actually, none.

- What do you rescue from Kicillof?

-It's hard for me. When he called me, he did it for laws that had to be passed in the Legislature. He is very closed, very dogmatic .

-What virtue do you find in Leandro Santoro?

-That until now he has been campaigning without aggression or disqualification. It's not little.

We reverse the direction. What do you not like about Macri?

-He is lousy at singing and dancing. (Laughs)

-And in politics?

-I think there was a certain ingenuousness at the beginning of his government when making promises.

-What do you not like about Horacio Rodríguez Larreta?

-There is very little time for him . It's hard to think about him.

-What do you not like about Martin Lousteau?

-How difficult. I have nothing I don't like about Martin.

María Eugenia Vidal was born in the Flores neighborhood on September 8, 1973. The daughter of a middle-class family, she is a fan of Boca, “obviously”. “And I'm not from Boca because of Macri, huh. I am from Boca because of my dad, ”she clarifies. She is a fan of music, from Cristian Castro to Coldplay, she boasts of having good lists on Spotify. And, due to the healthy pressure of one of her children, today she even encourages her to freestyle. She likes to read books. She recognizes herself as a fan of Claudia Piñeyro and Eduardo Sacheri. Her weak point is sports . "I'm a mess. I hated the sport as a girl. No sport went well for me. It's a frustration."

-What do you not like about yourself?

-I am very organized and methodical for my work but not for my life. I am a bit messy in my life . Disorder and disorder. I do not like it.

- Do you do therapy?

Yes, for many years. But I don't think it will fix that. (Laughs)

Are you happy today with your personal life?

Yes, I can't ask for more from life. I have three beautiful children. I have a man who is a great partner and person. I have my parents alive.

-Did the whole story of Quique (Sacco) weigh you down a lot before meeting you? I am referring to Débora Pérez Volpin, her imprint, her death…

-Do not. I admired him from day one. That was the first thing that made me look at it. I admired the balance, the temperance, the strength with which both he and Débora's children and Débora's family sought justice. It is very difficult to be a family member of a malpractice victim. And I think they did it by setting an example for the whole of society, fighting to the end to have a mistake. I admire him for that. I could never weigh his story.

-How did Quique get you up?

-10 days after Mirtha's program (Legrand) sent me an email. It was like writing letters to each other. Not with the immediacy that whatsapp has, that you have to answer right away, that you have to think about things. The mail allows you other times. We were writing emails for almost three months .

-Good old-fashioned.

-Yes. I loved it. Writing a little longer leads you to tell deeper things about yourself. We got to know each other that way until the election passed. I didn't want to mix things up. I wanted to protect whatever happened between us. So we met after the election. We went to dinner and everything started . He is a very good person. I always tell him: “No one can not love you”.

-If you had the opportunity to apologize for something, why would you do it?

- I would apologize to my children for not having been there all the time that other mothers are . I am a different mom. She had to go live on a military base. She had to live with custody. They didn't have the life that other kids had. They had other costs. For all that you missed, I apologize. One chooses to do politics. But he doesn't choose the family. To say that life, as Quique says, always gives you revenge. The pandemic and lockdown gave us the opportunity to be together for a long time after all those years when I was away from home.